Notes on Debates by John Lansing (July 2, 1787)

On Question for Equality of Suffrage––Massachusetts Pennsylvania Virginia North Carolina––South Carolina for Affirmative and Connecticut New York New Jersey Deleware and Maryland Negative. Georgia divided.

C. Pinkney––He is one of those who believes that if Proportion is adjusted in both Branches as in first it will operate in the Mode stated by Minority.

North Carolina South Carolina and Georgia have Interests different from great States––their Staples are Indigo and Rice.––Must make a Compromise so as to preserve all.

Proposes 4 Classes––States to have from one to four Votes.

G. Morris––2nd Branch is Check on the first––to correct Precipitancy, Changeableness and Excess––all these have marked Acts of Congress––2nd Branch must be Men of great Property––composed of those Men who are disposed to lord it over the Rest. ––We ought to contrive that Men of established Property should fill it––they must be chosen for Life––Aristocracy should keep down Democracy.––It is objected they will immediately do wrong––he believes so––he hopes so––that will form Ballance.–– they ought not to be paid they will pay themselves.

The Executive should fill second Branch.

If our Establishments are good they must be supported and will take a proper Direction––If the State Governments have Distribution of Loaves and Fishes the general Government cannot prevail–2–You must give them Disposition of Offices and Baubles––The Senatorship will operate as a Lure. Governor Randolph––Warmth has formed a Barrier to Conviction––A Security may be offered to smaller States––Executive may correct it by giving him additional Powers––Give second Branch an Equality of Vote in his Election––in Distribution of Offices and in determining on Impeachments––the Executive will be oblidged to interpose in Favor of 2d Branch.

If however every Attempt to make a general Confederation is inefficient it would influence him to seek elsewhere.

Some desultory Conversation then took Place the Result of which was the Appointment of a Committee of a Member from each State to try to settle Representation––the Committee balloted for consisted of Gerry, Elseworth, Yates, Patterson, Franklin, Martin, Bedford, Mason, Davie, Rutlege and Baldwin. Adjourned till Thursday 5th July.