MR. HOLMES. Mr. President, I rise to make some remarks on the paragraph under consideration, which treats of the judiciary power. It is a maxim universally admitted, that the safety of the subject consists in having a right to a trial as free and impartial as the lot of humanity will admit of.-Does the Constitution make provision for such a trial? I think not: For a criminal process a person shall not have a right to insist on a trial in the vicinity where the fact was committed, where a jury of the peers would, from their local situation, have an opportunity to form a judgment of the character of the person charged with the crime, and also to judge of the credibility of the witnesses. There a person must be tried by a jury of strangers-a jury who may be interested in his conviction; and where he may, by reason of the distance of his residence from the place of trial, be incapable of making such a defence, as he is in justice intitled to, and which he could avail himself of, if his trial was in the same country where the crime is said to have been committed.
These circumstances, as horrid as they are, are rendered still more dark and gloomy, as there is no provision made in the Constitution to prevent the Attorney-General from filing information against any person, whether he is indicted by the grand jury or not; in consequence of which the most innocent person in the Commonwealth may be taken by virtue of a warrant in consequ1
ence of such information, and dragged from his home, his friends, his acquaintance, and confined in prison, until the next session of the court, which has jurisdiction of the crime with which he is charged (and how frequent those sessions are to be, we are not yet informed of) and after long, tedious and painful imprisonment, though acquitted on trial, may have no possibility to obtain any kind of satisfaction for the loss of his liberty the loss of his time, great expenses and perhaps cruel sufferings.
But what makes the matter still more alarming is that as the mode of criminal process is to be pointed out by Congress, and they have no constitutional check on them, except that the trial is to be by a jury, but who this jury is to be, how qualified, where to live, how appointed, or by what rules to regulate their procedure, we are ignorant of as yet-whether they are to live in the county where the trial is- whether they are to be chosen by certain districts-or whether they are to be appointed by the sheriff ex officio-whether they are to be for one session of the Court only or for a certain term of time, or for good behaviour or during pleasure; are matters which we are intirely ignorant of as yet.
The mode of trial is altogether indetermined-whether the criminal is to be allowed the benefit of council; whether he is to be allowed to meet his accuser face to face: whether he is to be allowed to confront the witnesses and have the advantage of cross examination we are not yet told. These are matters of by no means small consequence, yet we have not the smallest constitutional security that we shall be allowed the exercise of these privileges, neither is it made certain in the Constitution, that a person charged with a crime, shall have the privileges of appearing before the court or jury which is to try them.
On the whole, when we fully consider this matter and fully investigate the powers granted-explicitly given, and specially delegated, we shall find Congress possessed of powers enabling them to institute judicatories, little less inauspicious than a certain tribunal in Spain, which has long been the disgrace of Christendom I mean that diabolical institution the INQUISITION.2
What gives an additional glare of horrour to these gloomy circumstances, is the consideration that Congress have to ascertain, point out, and determine, what kind of punishments shall be inflicted on persons convicted of crimes; they are no where restrained from inventing the most cruel and unheard of punishments, and annexing them to crimes, and there is no constitutional check on them, but that RACKS and GIBBETS, may be amongst the most mild instruments of their discipline.
There is nothing to prevent Congress from passing laws which shall compel a man who is accused or suspected of a crime, to furnish evidence against himself and even from establishing laws which shall order the court to take the charge exhibited against a man for truth, unless he can furnish evidence of his innocence.
I do not pretend to say Congress will do this, but sir undertake to say that Congress (according to the powers proposed to be given them by the Constitution) may do it; and if they do not, it will be owing intirely-I repeat it, it will be owing intirely to the GOODNESS of the MEN, and not in the least degree owing to the GOODNESS the CONSTITUTION.
The framers of our State Constitution, took particular care to prevent the General Court from authorizing the judicial authority to issue a warrant against a man for a crime, unless his being guilty of the crime was supported by oath or affirmation, prior to the warrants being granted why it should be esteemed so much more safe to intrust Congress with the power of enacting laws, which it was deemed so unsafe to intrust our state legislature with, I am unable to conceive.
Mr GORE-observed in reply to Mr HOLMES-that it had been the uniform conduct of those in opposition to the proposed form of government, to determine, in every case where it was possible that the administrators thereof could do wrong, that they would do so, although it were demonstrable that such wrong would be against their own honour and interest, and productive of no advantage to themselves On this principle alone have they determined that the trial by jury would be taken away in civil cases-when it had been clearly shewn, that no words could be adopted, apt to the situation and customs of each state in this particular Jurors are differently chosen in different states, and in point of qualification the laws of the several states are very diverse- not less so, in the causes and disputes which are intitled to trial by jury-what is the result of this-that the laws of Congress may and will be conformable to the local laws in this particular although the Constitution could not make an universal rule equally applying to the customs and statutes of the different states-very few governments, (certainly not this) can be interested in depriving the people of trial by jury in questions of meum et tuum-in criminal cases alone, are ' they interested to have the trial under their own controul-and in such cases the Constitution expressly stipulates for trial by jury-but then says the gentleman from Rochester Mr Holmes to the safety of life it is indispensibly necessary the trial of crimes should be in the vicinity- and the vicinity is construed to mean county-this is very incorrect, and gentlemen will see the impropriety by referring themselves to the different local divisions and districts of the several states-but further said the gentlemen, the idea that the jury coming from the neighbourhood, and knowing the character and circumstances of the party in trial, is promotive of justice, on reflection will appear not founded in truth-if the jury judge from any other circumstances, but what are part of the cause in question, they are not impartial-The great object is to determine on the real merits of the cause uninfluenced by any personal considerations if therefore the jury could be perfectly ignorant - of the person in trial, a just decision would be more probable-from such motives did the wise Athenians so constitute the fam'd Areopagus, that when in judgment, this court should sit at midnight and in total darkness, that the decision might be on the thing, and not on the person-further said the gentleman, it has been said, because the constitution does not expressly provide for an indictment by grand jury in criminal cases, therefore some officer under this government will be authorized to file informations and bring any man to jeopardy of his life, and indictment by grand jury will be disused-if gentlemen who pretend such fears, will look into the constitution of Massachusetts, they will see that no provision is therein made for an indictment by grand jury or to oppose the danger of an attorney general filing informations, yet no difficulty or danger has arisen to the people of this Common-wealth, from this defect, if gentlemen please to call it so-if gentlemen would be candid and not consider that wherever Congress may possibly abuse power that they certainly will, there would be no difficulty in the minds of any in adopting the proposed constitution.
Mr DAWES said, he did not see that the right of trial by jury was taken away by the article. The word Court does not, either by a popular or technical construction, exclude the use of a jury to try facts. When people in common language talk of a trial at the Court of Common Pleas, or the Supreme Judicial Court do they not include all the branches and members of such court, the jurors, as well as the judges?-they certainly do, whether they mention the jurors expressly or not. Our State legislature have construed the word Court in the same way; for they have given appeals from a justice of peace to the Court of Common Pleas, and from thence to the Supreme Court, without saying any thing of the jury: But in cases which almost time out of mind have been tried without jury, there the jurisdiction is given expressly to the justices of a particular court, as may be instanced by suits upon the absconding act, so called.
Gentlemen have compared the article under consideration, to that power which the British claimed, and which we resisted at the revolution-namely the power of trying the Americans without a jury But surely there is no parallel in the cases: It was criminal cases in which they attempted to make this abuse of power Mr D. mentioned one example of this, which, though young, he well remembered, and that was the case of Nickerson, the pirate-who was tried without a jury and whose judges were the Governours of Massachusetts, and of some neighbouring provinces, together with Admiral Montague, and some gentlemen of distinction. Although this trial was without a jury yet as it was a trial upon the civil law there was not so much clamour about it, as otherwise there might have been; but still it was disagreeable to the people, and was one ground of the then complaints.
But the trial by jury was not attempted to be taken from civil causes It was no object of power whether one subject's property was lessened, while another's was increased; nor can it now be an object with the federal legislature. What interest can they have in constituting judicial, to proceed in civil causes without a trial by jury? In criminal causes by the proposed government, there must be a jury It is asked, why is not the Constitution as explicit in securing the right of jury in civil as in criminal cases? The answer is, because it was out of the power of the Convention: The several States differ so widely in their modes of trial, some States using a jury in causes wherein other States employ only their judges, that the Convention have very wisely left it to the federal legislature to make such regulations, as shall as far as possible, accomodate the whole. Thus our own State constitution authorizes the General Court to erect judicatories-but leaves the nature, number and extent of them, wholly to the discretion of the legislature. The bill of rights indeed secures the trial by jury in civil causes, except in cases where a contrary practice has obtained.9 Such a clause as this, some gentlemen wish were inserted in the proposed Constitution, but such a clause would be absurd in that Constitution, as has been clearly stated by the Hon. Gentleman from Charlestown, Mr Gorham because the "exception of all cases where a jury have not heretofore been used" would include almost all cases that could be mentioned when applied to all the States, for they have severally differed in the kinds of causes where they have tried without jury4
Gen . HEATH." Mr President-By my indisposition, and absence, I have lost several important opportunities; I have lost the opportunity of expressing my sentiments with a candid freedom, on some of the paragraphs of the system, which have lain heavy on my mind. I have lost the opportunity of expressing my warm approbation on some of the paragraphs. I have lost the opportunity of asking some questions for my own information, touching some of the paragraphs, and which naturally occurred, as the system unfolded. I have lost the opportunity of hearing those judicious, enlightening, and convincing arguments, which have been advanced during the investigation of the system- this is my misfortune, and I must bear it. The paragraph respecting the migration or importation of such persons, as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, &c. is one of those considered during my absence, and I have heard nothing on the subject, save what has been mentioned this morning, but I think the gentlemen who have spoken, have carried the matter rather too far on both sides-I apprehend - that it is not in our power to do any thing for or against, those who are in slavery in the southern States. No gentleman within these walls detests every idea of slavery more than I do: It is generally detested by the people of this Commonwealth-and I ardently hope that the time will soon come, when our brethren in the southern States will view it as we do, and put a stop to it, but to this we have no right to compel them. Two questions naturally arise if we ratify the Constitution, shall we do any thing by our act to hold the blacks in slavery-or shall we become partakers of other men's sins. I think neither of them: Each State is sovereign and independent to a certain degree, and they have a right, and will regulate their own internal affairs, as to themselves appears proper; and shall we refuse to eat, or to drink, or to be united, with those who do not think, or act, just as we do, surely not. We are not in this case partakers of other men's sins, for in nothing do we voluntarily encourage the slavery of our fell men, a restriction is laid on the federal government, which could not be avoided and a union take place; The federal Convention went as far as they could, the migration or importation, &c is confined to the States now existing only, new States cannot claim it. Congress by their ordinance for erecting new States, some time since, declared, that the new States shall be republican, and that there shall be no slavery in them. But whether those in slavery in the southern States, will be emancipated after the year 1808, I do not pretend to determine, I rather doubt it.