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title:“Noted on Debates by Robert Yates (Copied by Lansing)”
authors:Robert Yates
date written:1787-7-5

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last updated:Jan. 22, 2013, 7:58 a.m. UTC
retrieved:Jan. 20, 2021, 1:37 p.m. UTC

Yates, Robert. "Noted on Debates by Robert Yates (Copied by Lansing)." Supplement to Max Farrand's The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787. Ed. James H. Hutson. New Haven: Yale University Press, 1987. 147-49. Print.

Noted on Debates by Robert Yates (Copied by Lansing) (July 5, 1787)

Thursday July 5. Mr. Gorham. Mr. Gerry. Mr. Martin. Mr. Wilson. Mr. Martin Mr. Wilson. Madison. Mr. Butler. G. Morris. Met pursuant to adjournment. Report of the Committee Read. Calls for an Explanation. Explains the principle of it. But they want their powers, in determining the original money bills. The one Expedient is on Condition of an adoption of the 2d. The Committee gone beyond their powers. proposes to take the question on the whole. A Leap in the dark. Right to call for a division of the question, hopes we shall take the Senti [ment]s on each dist [inct] prop [osal]. Restrained from animadverting on them from the Respect of the Committee. Made from a view to an accommodation. He sees nothing of concession in it, the orig[inating] Bills. If seven States in the second, want a bill—cant they prevail on the other of originating such a Bill. Exp [erience] in Vi [rginia] and S[outh] C [arolina] . it has no effect. no more than a nominal priviledge. 2 Branch small in number connected with each other, and will prevail. power of regulating Trade impost Treaties etc. no provisions made, and greater powers, than raising money. Drove to the dilemma to please I/3 to the detriment of the 2/3 of the people—with the Majority we have nothing to fear, the other way everything. The small states may at last see the true interest. The warmth of Delaware will ever yield to his suggestion of foreign Connections. And Jersey will upon reflection will also yield. Rather a report or plan of 3 or 4 States or even an anonymous [?] production than the present [?]. The op [inion] of the Com[mittee] will be regulated by the wisdom of the plan. To take up the whole in toto. It will be hard task—lose time. Moves whether we shall agree to it as wrote. Respect for the Committee. Extraordinary that propositions without amendment. We come here as Rep [resentatives] of America, nay even human Race. ought to extend our Views beyond the Moment of the day. Appears as Ambas[sador] to make a sort of bargain or truck. Opinion of the people rather a figure of Rethoric than a serious assertion. The small and greater states rather imaginary. suppose the smaller states do not accede. make all the Int [erest] in their states as much as they could. Example of N. Jersey would be disposed to follow Penn and N. York. [one word indecipherable] they persist. It must be united. If persuasion wont—the sword must. Look on it with horror. What is here a difference of opinion may end in Contrav [ersy] and even blood. Foreign interference he thinks probable. What the horrors of it in [?] a patriotic bosom. Returns to the report. 2d. Branch cannot answer the End proposed. Will in Event [?] in war and an annihilation of the G [eneral] G [overnment] . Congress can recommend but cant enforce obedience. The Senate thus organized would take part with the state. Germany. Aulic Council. Suppose R [hode] I [island] and Vir [ginia] cast one vote—Source of dispute. vote different. The great State will say you have the Con [rest of word indecipherable] for Children Childrens to form our nation? to overturn the inequality of the states is impractical but we may allay the sting. Why persist in the distinct [ion] of states. May add to a [one word indecipherable] everything the 1st branch to controul everything. Nothing can be made right to the conviction being right. To explain himself—Did not mean a wish to call foreign assistance. But if the larger states dissolved the Contract. Breach of faith. Those powers would take us by the hand. not wished by the smaller. professional habits and his own feelings. Plan are Accomodation [?]. The small states like the preservation of the G [eneral] G [overnment] was to be preserved. Warmth tends not to recom [mend] conviction—nor will the sword or Bayonet do it. The manner of the Gentlemen [?] of Pennsylvania and Virginia have given cause of the Alarm. The report recommending[?] no more, in order to see whether it could not be the basis of our accomodation. shews how the question of Representation was agitated in Convention. Some Gent [lemen] will appeal to the world at larger rather agree. If an agreement could be made, he would stay till he was burryed here. Against both propositions as they stand—property not represented Taxation and representation ought to go together—if otherwise suppose they tax away my property and wander like a Tartar, with Liberty indeed, but a baggor. Rather would not have a second Branch. Thinks property ought to have weight—Liberty most enjoyed by the savages—Numbers will amuse the Logycian and Matephysician but not reducable to practice. Holland grumbling, because she has only one vote and pays one half of the Expence. Is for defining the number of votes for each state in perpetuity. It is better for small States. R. I. now one of 75. would she not agree to this rather than have 757 votes against it. Has no obj [ection] to the Motion of SC provided the property could be ascertained. It cannot be done by any way. In past. partial.

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