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title:“Robert R. Livingston's Notes of the New York Ratification Convention Debates”
authors:Robert R. Livingston
date written:1788-6-21

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last updated:Jan. 22, 2013, 8:07 a.m. UTC
retrieved:Dec. 6, 2023, 10:34 a.m. UTC

Livingston, Robert R.. "Robert R. Livingston's Notes of the New York Ratification Convention Debates." The Documentary History of the Ratification of the Constitution. Vol. 22. Ed. John P. Kaminski. Madison: Wisconsin Historical Society Press, 2008. 1748. Print.
Robert R. Livingston, Notes, New-York Historical Society

Robert R. Livingston's Notes of the New York Ratification Convention Debates (June 21, 1788)

WILLIAMS. answ—want industry œconomy Placemen provided for— Amend it aristocratic—tyranical Shd we absorb state governments One embrace genl. objs. other interior Representation too few— State govermt Advantages Democracy—brings people forward—
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SMITH. Admits operation on individuals proper—question as to extend [i.e., extent]— Dubious construction shd be amended.
Great States no interest in encreasing representation—relative proportion same—
Interest individuals in Legisla to keep it low Senate & President dominant their share of power— œconomy no weight—expence Representatives always triffling Yeomanry saving.
Congress wasted money— Impossible to get a proper representation— Powers extended to objects for which government can not be competent— [Here?] different classes necessary Represent[at]ion consist of natural aristocracy— Gent. [of] abilities endeavoring to mislead people on this ground Difference capacities education— Fortune taken notice of by the common people— Distinctions as real here as in other countries tho no orders— Constitution only embrace their class—People prefer such men— Rich unite interest—a man of abilities chosen— Men talents & abilities to seek it being few—lower classes not chuse to go— Eminent characters always governors shd. be so checked— Representatives not democratic Men in lower classes—temperate & better than rich men— Rich not have feeling for poor— Where they govern more proper Rich decide what the public expend Spirit governmt. may change in less 25 years—Advocates for this constitution ridicule republican government— Genl. government confined to requisitions— Government form system injurious Liberty.
Only security large representation Exposed to corruption—every man his price— Greecian government destroyed by corruption— 24 men sufficient Lowest state in union 10 times more than Representation union— Give power no way to get it back
* * * * *
SMITH. in reply State governments no check—but by direct opposition—
Sparta and Rome—people got the [better?] because opposition of those who claim hereditary right—They always got the [better?]— State has elections representation
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LANSING. 1st Democratic branch possess feeling interest
2 free corruption— If shd. be increased why not increas[e] now— Crown corrupts house commons—
* * * * *
CLINTON. State govermt. corrects mal-administration by annual election

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